What a discussion - if nothing else, the length and quality of the comment thread shows people care about RE BarCamp. And that's a good thing.
Nick Bostic
· 2 months ago
Sorry Geordie, a little late responding to your tweet about this post, had some tech issues :)
I'll see your 3 BarCamps and raise you 2 San Francisco's! Our mini-conference on the front steps in Seattle gave me hope for this event, but I do have to agree, things need to change.
To everyone who said "lead a session", for me personally, my job is teaching RE people about technology and marketing. The last thing I want to do is teach some more, but I am willing to. Unfortunately, I have taken the approach of sitting back the first half of the day to gauge the scene: who are the real thought leaders, what is the level of the crowd, etc. I like to know who I'm talking to, if I speak at the level I want, I may bore some and excite others, so I want to appeal to the masses.
When I observe the first half, I have unfortunately been underwhelmed, both with many topic presenters (vendors pushing their wares, people who know far less than me and most of the people commenting here or people who just threw the topic up with no idea of what to talk about) and the participants who appear to still have no idea what a blog is and can't remember their Facebook/Twitter login information. This (perhaps incorrectly) indicates to me that the level of knowledge is below the level I'm seeking.
I too want to learn, not just teach.
The next BarCamp I attend, I will lead more sessions. I will get technical. Some people won't like it. Hopefully someone in the crowd will be able to engage at a level that challenges me.
Duke - maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're being rather argumentative and taking Geordie's thoughts a little too personally, when you could be taking this to the event you are working on (although the URL you use in your comments indicates you may want someone to put on a URL direction/posterous setup session). I see this as a challenge to present REAL advanced topics at any future BarCamp I attend because I know there are other people wanting the bar raised.
Geordie & Christian: Let's do the hardcore tech meeting soon!
**this was written as my personal perception and experience after 5 BarCamp's - also not as many as the vendors/sponsors - and is not intended to say BarCamp doesn't have a place or purpose, I just want more out of it**
Duke Long
· 2 months ago
Nick, No reason to take any comments personally.Just having a point of view,I think it's called interaction, As for the rest of your points....taken. Oh....I'm just a RE Broker not and soc media expert or educator/vendor.
Kelley Koehler the Housechick
· 2 months ago
I did do testing in NY - we covered website optimizer. And covered analytics in PHX and Chicago. And the whole second half of my adwords preso is landing pages. Fly me to the next one then. :)
'Course, it'd be cheaper to go find some interesting heads and gather them together yourself... BarCamp is largely about making that information come to you, and not waiting around for it.
A lot of those topics you mentioned sound cool to me. Go put one on the board next time. I'd be bored if I sat around in basic beginner stuff all day too. So I always come to these prepared to discuss something that *I* want to discuss. And up it goes on the board.
Ryan Hartman
· 2 months ago
Word Geordie,
Sad, can't even remember what he was talking about, but Drew Meyers thing at about 9am at REBar Philly was the highlight of my day... meaning it started off strong with about 30 minutes of not being so bored, then was disappointment after disappointment.
Some other topics:
Let's assume idx is dead Your Craig's List Postlet is Weak Real Estate Squeeze Pages Make Your Mortgage Guy Pay For The Leads!
For what it's worth, the BHB guys are doing a 1 day thing in San Diego, November...
drewmeyers
· 2 months ago
Glad to hear you enjoyed my session in Philly
Brian Wilson
· 2 months ago
Bold post but I think the candor is good for the REBar's. The difficulty lies in every tech seminar I attend... should the focus of REBAR be to educate and motivate agents who want to learn to blog or should it be an in-person version of this site and the rest of RE.net where we talk to ourselves about best practices?
Duke Long
· 2 months ago
Interesting that 2 of your 4 archive posts use Barcamp experiences as basis for content.Thoughts...maybe there are more people in the room who are at different levels of RE net experience.Get up and lead a session.Don't show up at all.... start your own event..I am CREBarRCamp in Chicago in Feb.Volunteering for FREE and taking the hits all the way.
Pete Prodoehl
· 2 months ago
I'd suggest that you are in control of your own experience at a BarCamp event, and if you're bored, it's your own fault. Do something that isn't boring. As we like to say, if you aren't giving or getting value where you are, use your two feet to go somewhere else and do something else. If you'd love to attend those sessions, why not facilitate them and lead them?
Duke Long
· 2 months ago
Pete, Agreed !
tcar
· 2 months ago
Kelley Koehler lead an A+B Tests for Landing Pages session in New York. So it's not like topics like that do not get discussed. Every once in a while, people chime in that they wish RE BarCamp was... My answer is always the same. Host a session on the topic you want to hear more about. You don't have to be the most knowledgeable person in the room to host a session, just willing to ask for such a session.
Also, if you want your head to explode, being surrounded by people smarter than you, go to RE BlogWorld. That's where I learn.
Courtney Cooper
· 2 months ago
I enjoy the social aspect of them mostly. I think if there was a way to separate newbies from true geeks then it might be more productive on both sides. (I enjoyed meeting you, BTW:))
srascoff
· 2 months ago
It's definitely hard to find the right content for REBarCamps because the audience is so diverse. Geordie is at one end of the bell curve in terms of knowledge. For every one of Geordie, there is one (or more) novice who has no clue about online marketing. So I agree with Geordie -- sometimes the content can be less than satisfying, especially if you attend several of these a year. Still, I think Courtney is right -- the social aspect is very important, and unique to REBarCamps. For me, it's an opportunity to meet in person many of the people whom I communicate with around the RE.net in various places like GeekEstate, twitter, and Zillow Advice.
In terms of specific suggestions for content, I'd personally like to learn more about the logistics of video blogging and podcasting. What software and hardware are needed to do these things well?
Jay Thompson
· 2 months ago
I guess I don't understand...
If there is something you'd like to see at a REBC, then ask for it. Gather support from other attendees, find a corner of the room and go for it.
Therein lies the beauty of the bar camp format.
It is what you make of it.
geordieromer
· 2 months ago
I agree that the #rebc format should allow me to control my own destiny and lead a discussion or at least host a session. (In PDX, I did lead the final session "Blogger Idol" which was neither the flop it could have been nor the success I wish it was.)
I guess I started out as an optimist and saw session titles that I thought had promise, but ended up being dumbed down - "Advanced" or "201" classes that really weren't.
I also think that some venues aren't really set up for having additional sessions. I think the empty floor at Zillow worked well as did Cube Space in PDX, but the Armory was challenging. I don't think there was more space to be had for additional sesssions, though a group of us did exit to the stairs out front for a bit.
My point is that REBC has some room to evolve. If the goal is to have a barcamp in 5 different cities every month - have fun, but count me out.
I think the best barcamp is the one where everyone present has an opportunity to both give and to receive. It seems to me like the participants have been divided between the presenters and the listeners and I don't think that's particularly fair or interesting in the long run.
Christian Nossum
· 2 months ago
I to have been to the same REBarCamps as Geordie, and I was on the steps outside of the Armory at the last Seattle REBarCamp having our own mini session where we talked more about an advanced level barcamp. I agree with pretty much every statement Geordie made on this topic. I can also see Pete, Jim, Jay, and Duke's point that the entire format of a REBarCamp is free form and we are able to head up our own discussions.
The problem is that the "Advanced" sessions, at least from my experience, usually end up being taught to the lowest denominator in the room (due to the number of "101" questions that bog down the hour long session). I know that's not the intent, but in being with the REBarCamp sharing spirit, we as the attendees and session leaders allow it happen.
Maybe the only way for a true "Advanced" level session to take place is to: 1) Let it be known from the start that it is an advanced level session and you need to understand these basic concepts in order to attend (hard to do because this might stymie the # of questions asked or discussion due to attendees being scared to talk - but to an extent that is the goal so it might just work)
2) Create your own "Secret" session and only allow or hand select attendees you know will bring something constructive to the conversation (I could see this working, but I could see how you might miss out on someone who you don't know adding to the conversation).
3) Create your own advanced REBarCamp that costs money to attend. Fly in the experts that would be willing to teach the advanced topics you want to learn, and hope that all of the time and work you put into it pans out and everyone learns something.
What do the people that are tired and bored of the "regular" REBarCamp experience want? Should the goal be to have an entire REBarCamp that is taught at the advanced level, or is the goal to have a certain # of advanced sessions taught at the regular REBarCamp? Hell, do we as the people that are bored even want/need/or care about the regular REBarCamp evolving to the advanced level, or should it stay the same and keep plugging along as it is to teach 101 classes to the masses? If it stays the same, I can see how it will eventually die becuase most of the attendees will eventually feel the same way as Geordie and I (well, at least to an extent).
Any other ideas on how there could be more advanced level sessions taught at REBarCamp?
Duke Long
· 2 months ago
I officially nominate you and Gordie to organize site select FUND set agendas get attendees,presenters ,wi-fi- tech set ups and send me an R.S.V.P. i would love to show up.
lucykelts
· 2 months ago
Where is Todd Carpenter when you need him.
Geordie, the two best things about ReBarCamp is that 1) there are no rules.. and 2) the organizer get to make it what he wants...
It sounds like you may need to organize the BarCamp that YOU want to see. I, for one, will be there with bells on.
With that said, the difficulty you will find is getting really high level people to come, on their own dime, and prepare discussions on their own time, for free. This absolutely limits what you can do.. Typically barcamps operate at a level JUST about the mean average of the attendees. This is good. It means MORE people are learning something.. but some are not.
Kelley Koehler the Housechick
· 2 months ago
Jim - Todd was here ahead of you, and already commented...
Marlow Harris
· 2 months ago
You're bored because you're at the top Geordie. I have to second some here and say it's time for you to teach. To get the upper-end commentators takes more dough than a free conference can attract, and face it, a lot of the most interesting people are selling something and "sales" is frowned on at RE Bar Camp. When a vendor develops a new product it's often introduced at conferences and conventions such as Inman and the NAR annual conference, and they might have a booth there and then give a spiel during one of the break out sessions. This is just too small potatoes to attract that kind of vendor, plus they may face some criticism if it's perceived that they're too commercial or have a questionable product. Yet I have to say that some of the most interesting sessions have been by someone selling something (think Altos, Ubertor, Zillow, Imprev, etc.)
Sam DeBord, SeattleHome.com
· 2 months ago
Just finished the mini barcamp in Bellevue. I understand Geordie's feeling, but think it's a good experience overall. The fact is, most of the folks on this site are in the top 1% of RE pros in terms of tech knowledge, and 1/2 of the folks showing up at Rebar are looking for their starter course. Nothing wrong with that, just a different level of knowledge.
Jim Reppond's twitter 201 group was great - all advanced add-ons, interfaces, auto feeds, techniques, etc. I'm sure there were one or two bored genius tweeters, but most of the group was very well informed - I may have been the least informed.
Maybe there should be a certified-geek group - something that clearly states "you will we overwhelmed - not for beginners."
DaleChumbley
· 2 months ago
Having organized one, I'll tell you that you can't "force" it to be all things to all people. That's what the attendees are for. As has already been said by much brighter individuals than me, if you want a bigger challenge... WRITE IT ON THE WALL! Need more depth? Ask more questions. Seek out the few individuals who are desiring that depth.
In Portland, the majority of our attendees didn't know what a blog was, RSS? (forget about it), Twitter? (not a chance), IDX? (huh), A+B=ummm G?, bounce rate is how high the super ball bounces right...
Since these events are user run & content comes from within, get involved and do more if you want more. If you don't like them... Stay home. It's okay.
(BTW, Geordie's Blogger Idol idea was great and I think the whole room got a lot out of it. I know the people I spoke with did. The interesting thing is each person got out of it totally different value. Each was based upon the individual's previous knowledge & experience.)
Rhonda Porter
· 2 months ago
We just had the Bellevue REBC on Tuesday...part of the goals of the planners was to try to have this as "unplanned" as possible which that task alone can be challenging. We had participants all submit index cards of what they wanted to learn and did not have "instuctors" or "presentations". We did have "moderators" with the intention of trying to pull experienced SMM people who try to blend in w/the crowd out to share and get involved.
Scott Cowan wrote a similar post at BHB as yours...attending REBCs and expressing dissatisfaction AND NOT GETTING INVOLVED AT THE REBC. I have to give Scott props because he did get involved at the Bellevue mini-REBC event with planning and even made the long drive extra early to help set up.
You can't really control how the events turn out--it's suppose to be about group participation.
My recommendation to you is to either get involved and make a difference and/or plan your own REBC if you want to continue attending--scratch that--you should stop attending and start participating.
Ed Bisquera
· 2 months ago
Hi Geordie - I had similar thoughts, but being very ADHD it's very unusual for me to get bored or sit still for very long. (Dale Chumbley can attest to that, at least I can channel some of it into playing tunes on the piano!)
But back to your post - I don't think you're truly "Bored" but just not challenged and while I agree with many of the commenters, that you need to present (if you did, my bad...too busy running around to see everyone), I think we at differing levels of advanced knowledge, should do a power session? (btw, @nbostic Nick Thanks for GREAT info and input on the session we both were in. I have to go through my notes to find exactly what you said, to give proper attribution).
Or maybe an advance coalition (Jim Reppond alluded to something similar) is an idea?
I agree with Jay & Dale and everyone else with the general thought "we are only as bored as we put in to it." Geordie, you are further along than 90% of the audience, IMHO and I feel like you share a lot already.
I think you are looking for what I'm looking for or more of which is more "A-HA" moments (no not the band...). I'm looking for opportunities at REBarcamp events that says "here's something you should do or here's some new knowledge that will help you and others." Just an amazingly simple "A-HA" moment. :-)
Very hyperfocused sessions, such as the testing topics @housechick mentioned or one like Drew Meyer's, I believe would cure my boredom factor. :-)
I guess for what it's worth, I throw up a suggestion: not that we who use the tools or blog or teach or present are any "better" or more knowledgeable, but I think an ADVANCED REBARCAMP would be welcome to the more "veterans" on the block. What say ye?
I'm not saying the underlying theme and culture of Rebarcamp's be ignored or replaced. But an extension of the Rebarcamp movement could allow for a half-day "Advanced Sessions" with topics such as you and others mentioned.
It could be something easier to organize, doesn't necessarily NEED sponsors (or $175 like the REbarcamp Bellevue) and could be titled "REBarcamp The Advanced Sessions" - Any thoughts?
Again, not to alienate or leave anyone out, it's just that to do one day that tries to be all things to all attendees, might be doing what we teach not to do. Trying to be all things to all customers...
I'm sure we wouldn't have to necessarily call it REbarcamp (what is the intellectual property rights to usage of the name?) but I know that advanced subjects are already being offered from so many sources.
Participating is the core aspect to finding the "A-Ha" moments for me; every time I go to events like these, my sole focus is "what can ANYONE teach me today?" And than my ADHD takes over, and eventually I offer up info and my questions lead me to the "A-Ha" of the day, from a presenter, from a self-proclaimed "newbie" or from another colleague, preventing me from getting too bored.
Hope that offers another viewpoint...
Thanks again Geordie and it was great meeting you IRL in Seattle.
All Comments
I'll see your 3 BarCamps and raise you 2 San Francisco's! Our mini-conference on the front steps in Seattle gave me hope for this event, but I do have to agree, things need to change.
To everyone who said "lead a session", for me personally, my job is teaching RE people about technology and marketing. The last thing I want to do is teach some more, but I am willing to. Unfortunately, I have taken the approach of sitting back the first half of the day to gauge the scene: who are the real thought leaders, what is the level of the crowd, etc. I like to know who I'm talking to, if I speak at the level I want, I may bore some and excite others, so I want to appeal to the masses.
When I observe the first half, I have unfortunately been underwhelmed, both with many topic presenters (vendors pushing their wares, people who know far less than me and most of the people commenting here or people who just threw the topic up with no idea of what to talk about) and the participants who appear to still have no idea what a blog is and can't remember their Facebook/Twitter login information. This (perhaps incorrectly) indicates to me that the level of knowledge is below the level I'm seeking.
I too want to learn, not just teach.
The next BarCamp I attend, I will lead more sessions. I will get technical. Some people won't like it. Hopefully someone in the crowd will be able to engage at a level that challenges me.
Duke - maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're being rather argumentative and taking Geordie's thoughts a little too personally, when you could be taking this to the event you are working on (although the URL you use in your comments indicates you may want someone to put on a URL direction/posterous setup session). I see this as a challenge to present REAL advanced topics at any future BarCamp I attend because I know there are other people wanting the bar raised.
Geordie & Christian: Let's do the hardcore tech meeting soon!
**this was written as my personal perception and experience after 5 BarCamp's - also not as many as the vendors/sponsors - and is not intended to say BarCamp doesn't have a place or purpose, I just want more out of it**
'Course, it'd be cheaper to go find some interesting heads and gather them together yourself... BarCamp is largely about making that information come to you, and not waiting around for it.
A lot of those topics you mentioned sound cool to me. Go put one on the board next time. I'd be bored if I sat around in basic beginner stuff all day too. So I always come to these prepared to discuss something that *I* want to discuss. And up it goes on the board.
Sad, can't even remember what he was talking about, but Drew Meyers thing at about 9am at REBar Philly was the highlight of my day... meaning it started off strong with about 30 minutes of not being so bored, then was disappointment after disappointment.
Some other topics:
Let's assume idx is dead
Your Craig's List Postlet is Weak
Real Estate Squeeze Pages
Make Your Mortgage Guy Pay For The Leads!
For what it's worth, the BHB guys are doing a 1 day thing in San Diego, November...
Also, if you want your head to explode, being surrounded by people smarter than you, go to RE BlogWorld. That's where I learn.
In terms of specific suggestions for content, I'd personally like to learn more about the logistics of video blogging and podcasting. What software and hardware are needed to do these things well?
If there is something you'd like to see at a REBC, then ask for it. Gather support from other attendees, find a corner of the room and go for it.
Therein lies the beauty of the bar camp format.
It is what you make of it.
I guess I started out as an optimist and saw session titles that I thought had promise, but ended up being dumbed down - "Advanced" or "201" classes that really weren't.
I also think that some venues aren't really set up for having additional sessions. I think the empty floor at Zillow worked well as did Cube Space in PDX, but the Armory was challenging. I don't think there was more space to be had for additional sesssions, though a group of us did exit to the stairs out front for a bit.
My point is that REBC has some room to evolve. If the goal is to have a barcamp in 5 different cities every month - have fun, but count me out.
I think the best barcamp is the one where everyone present has an opportunity to both give and to receive. It seems to me like the participants have been divided between the presenters and the listeners and I don't think that's particularly fair or interesting in the long run.
The problem is that the "Advanced" sessions, at least from my experience, usually end up being taught to the lowest denominator in the room (due to the number of "101" questions that bog down the hour long session). I know that's not the intent, but in being with the REBarCamp sharing spirit, we as the attendees and session leaders allow it happen.
Maybe the only way for a true "Advanced" level session to take place is to:
1) Let it be known from the start that it is an advanced level session and you need to understand these basic concepts in order to attend (hard to do because this might stymie the # of questions asked or discussion due to attendees being scared to talk - but to an extent that is the goal so it might just work)
2) Create your own "Secret" session and only allow or hand select attendees you know will bring something constructive to the conversation (I could see this working, but I could see how you might miss out on someone who you don't know adding to the conversation).
3) Create your own advanced REBarCamp that costs money to attend. Fly in the experts that would be willing to teach the advanced topics you want to learn, and hope that all of the time and work you put into it pans out and everyone learns something.
What do the people that are tired and bored of the "regular" REBarCamp experience want? Should the goal be to have an entire REBarCamp that is taught at the advanced level, or is the goal to have a certain # of advanced sessions taught at the regular REBarCamp? Hell, do we as the people that are bored even want/need/or care about the regular REBarCamp evolving to the advanced level, or should it stay the same and keep plugging along as it is to teach 101 classes to the masses? If it stays the same, I can see how it will eventually die becuase most of the attendees will eventually feel the same way as Geordie and I (well, at least to an extent).
Any other ideas on how there could be more advanced level sessions taught at REBarCamp?
Geordie, the two best things about ReBarCamp is that 1) there are no rules.. and 2) the organizer get to make it what he wants...
It sounds like you may need to organize the BarCamp that YOU want to see. I, for one, will be there with bells on.
With that said, the difficulty you will find is getting really high level people to come, on their own dime, and prepare discussions on their own time, for free. This absolutely limits what you can do.. Typically barcamps operate at a level JUST about the mean average of the attendees. This is good. It means MORE people are learning something.. but some are not.
Jim Reppond's twitter 201 group was great - all advanced add-ons, interfaces, auto feeds, techniques, etc. I'm sure there were one or two bored genius tweeters, but most of the group was very well informed - I may have been the least informed.
Maybe there should be a certified-geek group - something that clearly states "you will we overwhelmed - not for beginners."
In Portland, the majority of our attendees didn't know what a blog was, RSS? (forget about it), Twitter? (not a chance), IDX? (huh), A+B=ummm G?, bounce rate is how high the super ball bounces right...
Since these events are user run & content comes from within, get involved and do more if you want more. If you don't like them... Stay home. It's okay.
(BTW, Geordie's Blogger Idol idea was great and I think the whole room got a lot out of it. I know the people I spoke with did. The interesting thing is each person got out of it totally different value. Each was based upon the individual's previous knowledge & experience.)
Scott Cowan wrote a similar post at BHB as yours...attending REBCs and expressing dissatisfaction AND NOT GETTING INVOLVED AT THE REBC. I have to give Scott props because he did get involved at the Bellevue mini-REBC event with planning and even made the long drive extra early to help set up.
You can't really control how the events turn out--it's suppose to be about group participation.
My recommendation to you is to either get involved and make a difference and/or plan your own REBC if you want to continue attending--scratch that--you should stop attending and start participating.
But back to your post - I don't think you're truly "Bored" but just not challenged and while I agree with many of the commenters, that you need to present (if you did, my bad...too busy running around to see everyone), I think we at differing levels of advanced knowledge, should do a power session? (btw, @nbostic Nick Thanks for GREAT info and input on the session we both were in. I have to go through my notes to find exactly what you said, to give proper attribution).
Or maybe an advance coalition (Jim Reppond alluded to something similar) is an idea?
I agree with Jay & Dale and everyone else with the general thought "we are only as bored as we put in to it." Geordie, you are further along than 90% of the audience, IMHO and I feel like you share a lot already.
I think you are looking for what I'm looking for or more of which is more "A-HA" moments (no not the band...). I'm looking for opportunities at REBarcamp events that says "here's something you should do or here's some new knowledge that will help you and others." Just an amazingly simple "A-HA" moment. :-)
Very hyperfocused sessions, such as the testing topics @housechick mentioned or one like Drew Meyer's, I believe would cure my boredom factor. :-)
I guess for what it's worth, I throw up a suggestion: not that we who use the tools or blog or teach or present are any "better" or more knowledgeable, but I think an ADVANCED REBARCAMP would be welcome to the more "veterans" on the block. What say ye?
I'm not saying the underlying theme and culture of Rebarcamp's be ignored or replaced. But an extension of the Rebarcamp movement could allow for a half-day "Advanced Sessions" with topics such as you and others mentioned.
It could be something easier to organize, doesn't necessarily NEED sponsors (or $175 like the REbarcamp Bellevue) and could be titled "REBarcamp The Advanced Sessions" - Any thoughts?
Again, not to alienate or leave anyone out, it's just that to do one day that tries to be all things to all attendees, might be doing what we teach not to do. Trying to be all things to all customers...
I'm sure we wouldn't have to necessarily call it REbarcamp (what is the intellectual property rights to usage of the name?) but I know that advanced subjects are already being offered from so many sources.
Participating is the core aspect to finding the "A-Ha" moments for me; every time I go to events like these, my sole focus is "what can ANYONE teach me today?" And than my ADHD takes over, and eventually I offer up info and my questions lead me to the "A-Ha" of the day, from a presenter, from a self-proclaimed "newbie" or from another colleague, preventing me from getting too bored.
Hope that offers another viewpoint...
Thanks again Geordie and it was great meeting you IRL in Seattle.
All the best to you,
Ed B